NOTE: Transcripts are reproduced by means of electronic transcription. Accuracy is not guaranteed.

Bill Mick

Glad you are here for hour number three of a Tuesday morning, which means it is. Dave does history on Bill Mick Live? Dave Bowman has been with us all day. Headline at billmack.com, the Super Bowl. A new reason for Liberty 250, which is where Dave takes us as we March toward next July 4th and the 250th anniversary of the founding of this nation. Uh. It is an interesting look and we’ve kind of led into it with our previous discussions, but Dave, appreciate you and the work that you put into bringing us, Dave, does history and this look as we look back. On our founding, as we March toward that 250th anniversary, very valuable lessons here. What do you got for us today, Sir?

Dave Bowman

It was November 19th, 1863. It was at a small town in eastern Pennsylvania, a a a crossroads. Where four months before. The greatest battle on North American continent in history had taken place some 50,000 casualties of various types. And after the battle, many of the the fallen had been buried here. And Lincoln, the president, was invited to come and make a quote. Few brief remarks, UN quote. At the dedication of the cemetery honoring those who had fallen. The important thing to keep in mind here is that Lincoln was not the primary speaker. He was not. He was not the main draw. There was a man by the name of Everett who was who was well known for his rhetoric and oratory to the Point bill where people would listen to him speak for two hours. Before Lincoln ever took the stage. It was a different time in, in, in history when people would, I mean, we didn’t have television and radio. So. There you go. Everett’s speech involved classical detail. He did an almost epic retelling of the entire campaign. And kept people enthralled. And when he was done and sat down, Abraham Lincoln stood up, set his hat down. And spoke for barely. 2 minutes, 272 words. Those words, though, have outlasted. Anything, ever it said, nobody even remembers what Edward Edward Everett had to say that day. Lincoln’s words outlasted the smoke of battle. They outlasted even some of the stone monuments that were built at Gettysburg, erected decades after the fight. The opening line echoes. 4 score and seven years ago. Was chosen deliberately by Abraham Lincoln. To make 1776 the focal point, the reference point, the actual reason why we’re here. He didn’t. He didn’t call on 1787, which was the Constitution brilliant and enduring though the Constitution, as he instead went back to the very beginning, to the Declaration of Independence. And by tying the present moment of 1863 to that summer of 1776, he was saying that America’s true birth was not in the hammering out of law. Laws, the structures of government. But in the declaration of ideals. It was Jefferson’s words, not Madison’s. That defined what America? Was enduring and promised to be.

Bill Mick

And we continue in one minute on WMB. So Dave, what you’re telling me is that Lincoln didn’t just know history, but he understood it and its importance to where we were in this country.

Dave Bowman

There’s that and he’s trying to. Make a a a point here, which is that. The enduring promise of America isn’t found in our constitution. Our Constitution is great. I’ve spent years studying it. I appreciate it. I love it. But really, what America is is found in those words written by Jefferson in July of 1776. Lincoln knows this, and he understands the ambiguity of the political and more importantly, the moral situation involved here in the civil war. I don’t want to spend any time arguing with you about the civil war. You can call me up the other way. You can e-mail me outside. You can talk states, rats. All you. The Confederacy itself said that the reason it existed was to own slaves to own other people. Lincoln knows that he has to break through, that he knows that he has to remind us that 4 score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition. What is a proposition? It’s a test. The proposition that all men are created equal. This is the enduring promise of the of the of the Declaration of Independence. This is the idea that even when we wrote those words, even as Jefferson wrote those words, he knew that they were not being lived up to. But it was a promise that someday, maybe we can.

Speaker

The week. Then.

Dave Bowman

There’s something deeply forward-looking in Lincoln’s phrase. By calling equality a proposition. He admits that we have not fully lived up to the promise of 1776, not in 1863. And even later on. It was something that we had to aspire to, something that demanded work. It demands sacrifice. It demands vigilance. And of course he was. We were gathered there on a field, a great battle of that of that civil war, testing that proposition as to whether or not we were going to live up to the ideals that we had put down on paper 4 score and seven years before. This is the genius of Lincoln’s appeal. He was not asking people to fight and die for the technicalities of the Constitution. He’s asking them to fight, die, be wounded. For the permanence of an idea that liberty and equality are not negotiable. That they are the birthright of all, and that this government exists of, by and for the people only to secure those. If the Confederacy succeeds, it would mean that that principle had failed. If it, if the Union prevails, it means that the proposition still live. So this dedication at Gettysburg becomes more than just a cemetery dedication. If you’ve ever been to Gettysburg, you know what I’m talking about. You can’t. You can’t walk that field without that feel. One of the joys of my life was 2 summers ago, getting to take Ben there and to stand where Lincoln delivered those words. And I I know that my son doesn’t fully understand them yet. But to take him to Washington, DC, and one of my favorite my favorite picture of that entire trip. Is Ben, who wandered off at the Lincoln Memorial. And he found his way over to where the Gettysburg address is engraved into the granite of the wall. And he climbs up on the step. And he reaches up with his hands, and he puts his. Hands. On those words. These ideals that Jefferson, Adams. Franklin and 50 other men were coming up with. We’re not. Met yet and they understood that. But they also understood that in order to reach this goal in order to reach this idea in order to become a more perfect union, as we will later put it. Requires a starting point. You don’t end the war in Ukraine in 30 minutes in Alaska. You don’t reach perfection as a nation. As a perfect union. At the very beginning. But you have to have a goal. To start with. And Lincoln’s words remind us that the declaration is not trapped in 1776. It’s not words on an old piece of parchment written by dead old white guys that we should just ignore. The values are timeless. They’re meant to outlive the revolution, to stretch across centuries, to guide generations. That Jefferson and Franklin and Adams. Couldn’t even imagine. And that was the thread that Lincoln. Begins to pull on at Gettysburg. It’s why this short little address is still quoted. It’s still memorized. Well, it was when I was in school. And it’s still studied. And it’s why Edward Everett’s masterpiece of oratory. Is utterly forgotten. In that cemetery. Among those roles of freshly dug graves, Lincoln made it clear that the founding process founding promise was not about 1 moment in time. It’s about a mission. And that mission was not completed. It was literally. Under test at that moment. But it was still growing. And of course, in my own lifetime, we’ve experienced this, this same idea that we have to continue to get better at this. We have to continue to rededicate ourselves. To the proposition. That all men are created equal. Because if every generation doesn’t do that. Like the rabbis teach, each generation has to come out of Egypt in the same way. Each generation of Americans has to rededicate ourselves to the Prince. That all men are created equal. And the government of by and for the people is instituted for the sole reason. To guarantee that. That’s the enduring promise of the Declaration of Independence.

Bill Mick

When we pick it up, when? We continue on Bill Mick Live.

Speaker 3

Our weekly dive into history, Dave Bowman joins us on Bill Mick Live.

Bill Mick

So Dave Lincoln goes to Gettysburg, he delivers that short, but. Forever living address and he challenges the country and says. It’s a proposition that all men are created equal. How do we maintain and perpetuate that? How do we reach the goal? And that’s pretty much the challenge that was laid out there.

Dave Bowman

It’s a test, and of course if you see the Civil war in that in that light it kind of changes some ways. The way you look at that. What we’re doing now is we’re delving into the preamble of the of the Declaration of Independence, and if I slip up and call it the Constitution, my apologies. But that’s what I’m used to dealing with. So the preamble of course, is is not the introduction the in Congress, July 4th, 1776. Now we’re into that paragraph. Where Jefferson has taken his pen. To pay. Or. His quill to parchment, and he’s begun to explain the purpose. What? Why are we doing? He begins with those famous words that Lincoln evoked. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. We could spend a lot of time talking about the moral ambiguity with Jefferson writing those words and. Jefferson himself recognized the fact that he was not living up to those words. He understood that. But in his own words, I don’t know what to do about it and. Nobody. Else does either. How do we change this? Those are the tests that will come later, but we have to start with the goal. That they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which is a a topic we’ll get into in the coming weeks. We’ve we’ve actually already talked about it once before. That’s that change that that, that we we get into with the language. Jefferson was not simply writing a justification for rebellion. He’s laying down a set of principles. That would outlast the immediate quarrel with King George the third. Once that’s done, one way or the other, how are we gonna? Live our lives. We are endowed by the by the Creator with those certain unalienable rights. And it’s difficult to underestimate or it’s difficult to overstate how radical that statement would be considered in the 18th century. And how permanent Jefferson meant it.

Speaker

The bear.

Dave Bowman

He was saying that the rights didn’t come from kings or parliaments or even constitutions, and I would remind you that. The Bill of Rights doesn’t give you any rights. It simply limits what Congress can do. He said that they come from God from nature itself, they cannot be granted or withdrawn by men. They are not favors that get doled out our contracts to be negotiated. They’re intrinsic, they’re universal, and they are permanent. By the time Lincoln stands at Gettysburg, this claim will become the moral compass for the union’s cause. If rights are unalienable, then slavery is not just a political issue, it’s a moral monstrosity. It denies the very thing that the nation is founded on. Lincoln used Jefferson’s words. To make it clear that the Civil War wasn’t about holding borders intact. It was about the test, the idea. That we believe that all men it’s self-evident. That all men are created equal.

Bill Mick

As you noted, Dave, this was a struggle as the preamble to the declaration was being written. It was a struggle during the Civil War, and it would continue to be a struggle for many, many years.

Dave Bowman

Even into my childhood, and some would argue beyond that. But from Jefferson’s foundation that all men are created equal. Flows the the often quoted phrase the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Now these are not. Ornamental words. These aren’t just flowery language. This is really the the heart and soul of the American philosophy of governance, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, not freedom, liberty. Life asserts that every individual is entitled to existence itself without fear of arbitrary destruction. Liberty we’ve talked about asserts that each person has the right to self direction without being shackled by the will of another, particularly a leader. And that pursuit of happiness? Or that’s a phrase it extends the principle further. It recognizes that flourishing is not something dictated from above, but sought from individuals in their own way. Locke had written, of course, life, liberty and property, which Jefferson could have gone with very simply. But there’s a there’s a very specific reason why they chose that phrase. The pursuit of happiness, that. Phrase pursuit of happiness. Is America? In every every nutshell, you can put it into. That is an American phrase. It’s an American idea, and it’s an American extension of the idea of just owning property, no. It is a. An action. Which is what America is really about. We’ve actually talked about this before on on Dave, does history here on Bill Maclin and we’ll probably talk about it again the how that phrase came to be. In Lincoln’s time during the Civil War, the philosophy is being tested. Can a nation tolerate a system that denies life to those deemed who property? Supreme Court had ruled that. It denied liberty to millions held in ******* and denied even the faint host hope of happiness to an entire race of people. Can that be the way that we are? Can we are engaged here in a test to see whether that government can survive? Lincoln reminded Americans that these truths are self-evident, not selective. And to carve exceptions into them. Destroys them entirely. The declaration does not stop with those rights. It gave government its only legitimate purpose that to secure these rights, governments are instituted amongst men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the govern. Believe me, that is an earthquake in political theory in 1775. In 1776, Kings believed that they had their power by birthright. They believed in the divine right of kings that God himself had put them on the throne. Tyrants would claim it by conquest, which of course King George was trying to do. But Jefferson wrote that power only comes from the governed. And only for the purpose of protecting their rights. If you strip away that purpose, government loses its legitimacy. And it’s Lincoln reminding us at Gettysburg about this idea. He’s not merely appearing to appealing to patriotism. He’s not relying on military necessity. He’s drawing a line back to those words in 1776, and he’s asking that question. Do we believe this is self-evident? And do we believe that government of, by and for the people? Is the only legitimate reason for it to exist?

Bill Mick

And we pick it up in moments here on WMB.

Speaker 3

Call Bill now 321-768-1240.

Bill Mick

Renewal by Anderson, the hour sponsor, Dave Bowman, bringing as Dave does, history continuing our Liberty 250 series. And Dave, as you said at the outset and Lincoln saying this is a proposition, it is a test that. I think a government faces every day in all honesty and can we uphold those standards and live up to those standard?

Dave Bowman

I don’t even think it’s a test for the government, I really don’t. Of course I have my own opinions about politicians in general. The real test is for us do we hold these truths to be self-evident? And if the answer is no. We get the government we deserve. When Jefferson wrote those words, when he wrote that governments are instituted amongst men laying their foundations on such principles and organizing their powers in such form as to them shall seem most likely to affect. Effect meaning to again their safety and happiness. He’s doing more than just tossing in a poetic flourish. This isn’t every word in this like like the Gettysburg Address. Every word in this is carefully crafted. That phrase is the capstone of the preamble. It defines what government is for, not domination, not conquest, not enrichment of a ruling class. For human flourishing. Safety and happiness are not sentimental words. They’re practical goals. It means security from tyranny, from invasion, from arbitrary imprisonment. Happiness, something far broader than just pleasure. It means the conditions under which people could live full lives, cultivate families, pursue their faith, commerce, their education, whatever makes their existence. Meaningful. That’s the vision of the Founders governments not to be the idol. Demanding worship, nor a master demanding submission. It’s a tool fashioned for a purpose, and like any tool, it has to be judged by its usefulness. Did is it? Does it secure the rights? Does it secure life? Does it enable liberty? If so, then it’s justified. If not, then that government is illegitimate and it is the right and the duty of the people to throw it off and replace it with something else. This is the forward-looking genius of of Jefferson’s words. He’s writing in a time when kings were thought to be the divinely appointed. He strips away the mystique. He says governments exist only if it serves its people, and even then. Only by their consent. By 1863, Lincoln is able to breathe life back into that principle. We we’ve forgotten it. In many ways, we’re going to talk later on about how the Declaration of Independence, as important as it is to us today as it important as it was in 1776. Kind of lies forgotten for almost 50 years. It just kind of goes away. The Constitution sort of takes over everything. Lincoln is able to breathe back into that.

Speaker 4

He.

Dave Bowman

He’s worried about the way the war is going, and he has to make the struggle. Less about borders, less about emancipation. He has to remind people that it’s about the vision. And whether or not that vision can. Endure. So he closed the Gettysburg address with those words, deliberately echoing Jefferson. That the government of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish from the earth. That’s why we are here. And we maybe didn’t fight the Gettysburg. Battle this week. Maybe we didn’t. Maybe we haven’t been through that in in years. But each and every day, that’s the question. That’s the fight that we have. Do we let that government of, by and for the people perish from the earth, or do we? Carry on that. That goal. The modern revance of the preambles challenge. Is very clear to us. The words that Jefferson wrote and that Lincoln reiterated are not relics in a museum. They are a mirror that we have to hold up to ourselves do do our governments secure rights or do they trample on them? It’s really simple. Do they drive their powers from the consent of the governed, or do they operate on inertia, bureaucracy and coercion? Do they serve the safety and happiness of the people, or do they serve the interests that are detached from the common good? These are not abstract questions. These are not radical questions. They go to the heart of every policy debate, every election and every crisis. And yet, how often do we hear those questions asked? At, say, a presidential debate. When citizens feel unsafe in their communities, when liberty is compromised in the name of expediency, when the pursuit of happiness is throttled by economic stagnation or cultural decay. Then the preamble becomes more than parchment. It becomes a living indictment. Jefferson’s words are still the standard by which we measure the Republic’s health. Lincoln knew that in 1863. We found it out again in the 1960s and it’s something that we should know now. To this day, that phrase all men are created equal. It haunts us and it inspires us. For Jefferson’s generation, it was revolutionary, but it was imperfectly applauded for Lincolns, it was a compass pointing towards emancipation and a national rebirth. For us, it continues to press on the issues of equality before the law, opportunity and dignity. Each generation, every generation of Americans is forced to confront whether we are truly treating that proposition as permanent. Or whether we’re willing to compromise and settle it for half measures. And that’s what makes Jefferson’s preamble of the Declaration of Independence forward-looking, it sets a standard. That cannot be fully met once and for all. It must be pursued anew in each and every generation.

Bill Mick

And we will pick it up in 60 seconds. Your calls ahead on Bill Mick Live. Wrapping up a Tuesday, and Dave does history with Liberty 250 on Bill. Mick Live, we get to the phones at 321-768-1240, line one, you’re up first in this hour. Good morning.

Speaker 4

That me, bill.

Bill Mick

That is you. Who’s this?

Speaker 4

Charlie and Merritt Island.

Bill Mick

Yeah, Charlie, what’s on your mind?

Speaker 4

I want to say, Dave, that was the most. Juliet soliloquy. I have heard it a long time. Bill, you need to make a copy of that. Order on your website. And everyone needs to grab a link. A copy of that and send it to everyone you know. Bill, you need to send that to every news agency that your channel is a part of.

Bill Mick

Hey, Charlie. It will be there shortly after the show under the podcast section top of the page at billmick.com every hour of every show is done that way, and especially the.

Speaker 4

Yeah, that was brilliant, Dave. Absolutely inspired, brilliant every kid. Every that should be taught in every school. Mandatory our Department of Education and I was thinking before just before I tuned in as driving along thinking about you know. We should have. Things on every wall, in every hallway, in every classroom, in every school, positive messages like. The you know what you do today determines your future. You know, learning to read and write will give you a better life. I mean, all kinds of positive messages. If there’s one thing one and only thing that the parent of education is good for would be to mandate that positive messages like that. And like what, Dave? That said, that should be read in the halls of Congress. I’m serious.

Bill Mick

Charlie, that’s well said and I do appreciate it. I know, Dave, you do as well.

Dave Bowman

Yeah. Thank you. Obviously, I don’t do this to get. Praise, and I mean it’s all nice and stuff, but and I appreciate it. It’s just something that I passionately believe, and this goes back to what I talked about with politics. News last time you heard any politician in any debate discussion press conference asked about what are you doing to preserve and defend liberty? To preserve and defend the the right to life, liberty, and the. Pursuit of happiness. My guess is that the vast majority of politicians don’t even know what those words mean.

Bill Mick

And don’t care to in many. Cases. No, they don’t. That’s tough. Hey, I want to go back. We took a call in our second hour. John had called in because he wasn’t sure he’d be here in the 8:00 hour and wanted to know. Other references you have used for Western influence on the founding of this country. Obviously you’d listen to last week’s show where we were talking about those things easy place for him to find that from.

Dave Bowman

There is a link on my page Dave does history.org which by the way will also have this podcast Charlie so you can you can get it there and you can follow me on iHeartRadio. So all that’s there as. Well. There is a link on the page Dave does history.org that says recommended books. I I have collected an eclectic group of books that that I have used for this, plus I have. I have spent probably close to $1000 on this. Don’t tell my wife about all this stuff. He specifically asked about a book. I’m trying to remember the name of it. The golden threat? Yeah, the golden thread. A history of Western tradition. Yes, I would highly recommend that. Professor giesel. Gazel guelzo. Sorry. I script. His name is one of my favorite lecturers I have purchased probably six or seven of his lectures.

Bill Mick

I didn’t get to write it down. It was too long.

Dave Bowman

That are available and he is a very, very knowledgeable and very good speaker. I’m not sure I’d have to look at the book. The book is 80 bucks. I don’t know that I’m gonna be. Buying. That anytime soon. But it’s but. He has several lectures out there. The life of Abraham Lincoln, America’s founding fathers. He has a very good course on making history. How historians interpret stuff which you’ve heard. Some of which you’ve heard. Regurgitated here. So yeah, I would highly. Recommend the book. I just don’t have 80 bucks to spend on. It right now I.

Bill Mick

Got you. I want to hit you with one other question in a couple of minutes. We have left, Dave. Had this S won. The Civil War and the Confederate States of America fell into existence beside the United States of America. That what was left of them. Does either nation survive and do these principles survive in the now smaller United States?

Dave Bowman

Ohh, that’s a that’s a loaded question. Militarily, I don’t see any way that the South could have won. The only way you win militarily is you wear down the North’s willingness to fight. And then now it just says, you know what, we’re we’re not spending anymore money on this. We’re done with this. Whatever there isn’t going to be a Southern invasion of the north that conquers the north. That’s not going to happen. I don’t think that either nation survives as they were then. The South, the South still had a moral problem, which was that many of the. Civilized nations around the world. We’re not. We’re not real happy about that slavery thing. And and when you have a whole bunch of people that are just locked into that, it made things hard.

Bill Mick

How do you think it made it different for the north it would have.

Dave Bowman

The north because of the geography of it, I mean basically the North now extends West across Missouri South and to Arizona to California. I think the north survives, but I don’t know because we gave up on those principles. Do we maintain those principles? That’s the question you would have to ask, and if you don’t maintain those principles, what? Kind of government. Do you end up with?

Bill Mick

Renewal by Anderson brought you this hour. Dave Bowman brought you the content. And Dave, I appreciate it. Job well done. I can’t say it as well as Charlie did, but we appreciate it all, my friend. I look forward. To having you back next Tuesday. We’ll see you then. All right, sounds good.